Suspension differences

[SchnauzerDad]

I was reading threads and there were several mentions of people wanting coil spring suspensions for their Scout. I know there are new fangled shocks out there, leaf spring, coils, bags, air, who knows what else. I’m not up on these things. Can someone tell me why coils are preferable? I mean I can totally understand the idea that it’s less expensive and simpler than getting an air suspension and way less to break. But why coils over the other gizmos out there? Clue me in.

I was one guy who said I’d never get an air suspension blah blah blah, another thing to break. Uh….. until I drove a Defender. Now I must have one. It’s just the cherry on top of everything I love about my Defender.

So if Scout offers the air suspension, I am 100% definitely going for that option. But I’m clueless on the other things on a car that go with the air suspension. Are there coils along with that or something else? Or when you have air, you just get big rubber bumpers under there for the car to collapse on if the air failed? I really don’t know.

 

[No_Remorse]

First off: I'm no suspension expert so below is my opinion based on current knowledge of my jeep and 4 wheeling.

First a quick Google/AI search can tell you all of the technical differences between these two components so no need to dive into that, but I feel it boils down to 2 things:
1. Vehicle usage
2. Repairability

Depending on how you use your vehicle this will drive your suspension setup. If you're going to be 90% on-road and on some dirt/gravel roads, then I'd say bags are good. I'm NOT saying bags can't take a vehicle over rocks so let's not start that battle.

However if you're taking your ride 4 wheeling over class 3+ rated trails, then I think coils are your suspension of choice. Not only from a "I know how it works and components" perspective, but also repairability in the field. Remember Scouts are meant to be user-repaired, and likely someone with wheeling knowledge can repair coils in the field vs. bags, parts clearly being a large factor.

Just my two coopers!

 

[PMurphy]

Great question RE coil springs vs. air suspension. I am still at the “not for me” phase. No_Remorse pretty well laid out my understanding of the issues. With coil springs you get more flexibility on lift kits/ride height modifications though within design limits the air suspension flexible ride height adjustability is a huge plus. American OEM’s have not set a high standard for air suspension long term reliability and repairability (still see vehicles with collapsed air systems riding around on the bump stops).

From early discussions on this site it is likely that Scout will offer an air suspension option. IF it ends up only being available only on the high content option packages I will likely pass.

 

[Flyinglow]

Air suspensions allow for height adjustment although at higher settings they lack compliance. Unfortunately, they have proven to failure prone on some vehicles as the get older and expensive to fix once they fail.

The height adjustment has aero/efficiency benefits and makes it easier to get yourself and cargo in and out at lower settings. At higher settings you get more ground clearance and deeper fording.

Coil springs are more durable and almost never fail. The shocks are less expensive since they don't incorporate the air bags although some of the more sophisticated adaptive setting shocks can be pretty pricy as well.

Coil spring suspensions lend themselves to lift kits and other aftermarket options. Air suspensions you generally are stuck with the factory units.

 

[SchnauzerDad]

Got it. I guess….. it sounds like maybe a majority of people who want Scouts want the less expensive coils and simplicity over possible air suspension driving refinement (and possible long term issues and/or maintenance), or along those lines perhaps.

I can certainly see the allure of the Scout to all the off-roaders out there or those who want the iconic acid-flashback ‍.

I know it’s a waste of a perfectly great off-road vehicle whether it’s my future Scout or my current Defender, but I’m not going to to lie, I’m a city slicker and my car is never going to go off-roading, I just don’t have the time. My current air suspension is never going to be subjected to nasty environments so maybe I’ll be lucky. Regardless I took out a 6 year warranty! I’ve read that while Land Rover makes the Defenders/Discoverys and luxury line Range Rovers, the Defenders are supposed to have a much beefier air suspension. Why would they be different? But that is what I read on LR forums.

Thanks guys

 

[PMurphy]

I’ve read that while Land Rover makes the Defenders/Discoverys and luxury line Range Rovers, the Defenders are supposed to have a much beefier air suspension. Why would they be different?

Thanks guys

The Discovery, and prior gen MB G Wagons, are the only European SUV’s that hold my attention. The Discovery is engineered for off-road capability and is used that way in other parts of the world. Most off-road capable vehicles in the US see very little dirt/mud/rock duty (mainly snow duty for my Jeep). This forum has a high representation of off roading participants who are trying to keep Scout focused on its’ heritage of simple, durable vehicles that have endured primarily because they stood up to off road bashing and could be repaired outside of a dealership (good thing because there is no manufacturer support!!).

The promise (hope) of Scout being a direct to consumer product with minimal need for routine dealer based service is one of the primary attractions to me. IF the initial engineering is done right, proven 3rd party components are sourced when available and a safety net of 3rd party repair/performance shops is allowed (encouraged!!) to form around Scout it could be a game changer for consumers in the US. That is my vision, hope it is not a bad hallucination?!

 

[No_Remorse]

I'm hopeful too @PMurphy ! The self-service aspect is highly appealing and why I drove around and '09 jeep vs. 2024 jeep. Too many electronics to break, plus Stellantis has shit the bed in terms of durability and support.

Now I know the new Scout is going to have a shit-ton of EV-related things I don't know about, considering it's an EV at heart driven by computers and the rivian infrastructure. But as stated if done right this could be a great learning opportunity.

@SchnauzerDad - it's your car so drive it the way you want! People's opinions on what you do with the vehicle you bought with your money is just that, an opinion! Let's hope we all get the chance to enjoy the new Scout!

 

[SchnauzerDad]

Yes absolutely for sure that Scout is going to be heavy tech. And that’s what every EV is. Unfortunately software is TOUGH. Obviously Fisker effed up as bad as anyone could

So it is awesome news that Rivian is in on this. Although admittedly I don’t know how good Rivian‘ software is. No one could do it worse than Fisker though…. But from what have seen on a few of those early videos with some car reviewers, it (Scout screen menus) already looked great! And they stated that we need to do the software and UI right. Like they have Fisker as an example of how NOT to do things. Since we’re still a few years out I feel pretty confident that they will get this right. I would think that getting all the other stuff like suspension and interior materials worked out would be a cakewalk compared to getting the software right.

 

[rfk]

From early discussions on this site it is likely that Scout will offer an air suspension option. IF it ends up only being available only on the high content option packages I will likely pass.

If it ends up mandatory on the high content option packages then I will likely pass (on those packages). Only air bags I want are inside the vehicle.

 

[No_Remorse]

Am hoping that Scout is smart enough to allow customers to add individual options/components vs. forcing "packages" on us. There was a similar thread elsewhere, but just ranting...

 

[vbrad26]

I personally don't see any benefit to having an air suspension. Therefore, I prefer a traditional shock/spring combo. Especially on a more off-road oriented vehicle.
I know Land Rover does it, and has been doing it for a long time. But a vast majority of those don't ever see anything but pavement.
Ask me where the air suspension from my Range Rover is....
Or how about I just tell you -- in the garbage!

 

[SchnauzerDad]

Am hoping that Scout is smart enough to allow customers to add individual options/components vs. forcing "packages" on us. There was a similar thread elsewhere, but just ranting...

I don’t know squat, but a quick search shows luxury brands having air suspension or the choice of it. But anything under that echelon you get a choice or no choice….

So I’m willing to bet 99 bottles of beer on the wall that since Scout is not coming in as a “luxury” brand, but trying to appease both sides of the aisle, they’ll offer it as an option for sure, but not jam it down your throat.

Since this will be an electric vehicle, but trying to stay affordable , I’d offer Rivian and Tesla as examples. There’s only 2 models of Rivian out and both with air suspension as standard. But word is that the R2 will not have it as standard. Tesla gets standard air with the S and X models but you don’t even get a choice with the others.

The Defender has air as a $1600 option. My car is a limited edition with air so I couldnt even say I didn’t want it. But the ride quality is definitely better than anything else my wife and I have had from pretty much all the brands we’ve owned. But we’re city slickers and aren’t aiming to climb trails or be ready for the zombie apocalypse. I certainly respect the wishes of others for whatever floats your boat