Scout has 150K+ reservations now. 85% are for Harvester EREV Hybrid

[Agatl1]

I switched from an EREV to a BEV reservation once I saw how reduced the electric only range was on the EREV. I wonder how many of the 150k reservations are active on this forum and know that.

In my specific point of view if I have the BEV I can stop and charge it full while on a road trip. With the EREV it isn’t as feasible because you have to fill the tank and also charge the battery for full range. Just filling up the tank gives you reduced total range.

I have a PHEV currently so my current daily commute is covered by the battery but I experience the reduced range on road trips after the initial charge and tank is depleted. Also I have the gas engine maintenance to deal with in addition to the occasional Fuel and Oil Refresh mode if I’ve only been using electric for a while. Finally the ability to use the vehicle as battery backup for the house is diminished with the smaller battery.

When I originally hear about the Harvester option I was excited about it being and add-on without really considering there would be a trade off, but the more I think about it the less sense it makes for my specific use-cases.

Same here. I switched my reservation to the erev about a month ago, and now I'm going to switch it back as I've thought about it. A big component of the joy of an electric is just the the near absolute lack of maintenance required. And in my case, even though 90% of my miles would be inside the battery capacity of the erev, now I have to worry about gasoline sitting in the tank for 2 or 3 months and getting stale.

 

[joewilk45]

This battery swap thing is cool but I'm looking at if manufacturers can make batteries interchangeable and this easy cost should be very affordable

 

[mcm4ss]

I now have two. One is EV only.

 

[Bender]

It's unreal how oblivious the top brass at car companies are. The guy didn't know that U.S. buyers prefer gasoline? Is he serious?

If they had a third option: full ICE, you would see 90% of orders for THAT version, 8% EREV, and 2% EV.

I don’t think Scout has the capital to add engineering and manufacturing for an ICE drivetrain.

The ICE market is filled with Broncos, Wranglers, 4Runners, Land Cruisers and a buncha pickup trucks. Meanwhile the EV market has Rivians and Hummers and the EREV has nobody. Gotta go where the market is going, not where it’s been

 

[nittspike]

Check this out no range anxiety here

I visit China a few times a year for business and my direct report rents/owns Nio. Nice cars and range. The battery swap concept is pretty neat. Pull up and the car battery shed talk. The car then goes hands free and basically backs into the shed and connects.ie passive shut down/sleep mode. There is a small battery for minor lights or if ac/fan on. Floor opens, some ratchet mechanism unbolts the battery pack, it gets lowered and then another rolls under and gets installed and ratcheted to the correct torque spec. Car then turns back on and off you go. Total time is about 6-7 mins tops. They set these sheds up in various spots, like warehpuse areas or unused older factory lots, hotel, shopping districts, and older non used gas stations. However, there is a big flaw that i personally experienced when changing the battery. If for any reason the ratchet bolt mechanism disengages or does not torque in properly, you are stuck. The vehicle will not turn on, there was no way to manually re-start. We got stuck for about 3hrs and had a Mio service guy come out. The reset button is designed under the front hood, but behind one of the headlights. It was near impossible to get to without somehow removing the front quarter panel and front end which is all one piece! Guy was literally inside the frunk and pulling stuff out.This all happened about 2yrs ago so they may have changed that lockout functionality. I am heading there in April and will adk. Running joke with my report was China not happy I saw that mistake and i may not clear passport control when i tried to leave . I did tell my direct, he can still rent that car when I come back but if he needs to change battery, do it when i am back in the hotel in evening.

 

[cptcolo]

Well, first of all these batteries don't degrade that fast. F-150 Lightning owners at 4 years and 150,000 miles have reported battery health above 90%.

Secondly the entire purpose of the onboard engine is to keep the battery pack charged. So you won't be charging the truck manually often at all with the EREV. It'll drive in full electric mode most of the time and all you've got to do is put gas in it once per month.

It really is the best way to go. And, it should cost less because the battery pack is the main cost of the vehicle, so the full BEV version will be heavy and expensive.

I have a 2023 X5 45e PHEV. With a plug-in hybrid (or EREV), slight range degradation is not nearly as much of an issue because you have the gas engine to fall back on. I get around 31 miles of real world range with my car, 60% of the miles have been in pure electric mode, and my overall gas mileage has been around 46mpg. The harvester EREV version of the Scout is rumored to have at least 100 miles of real world range, which would mean nearly all local trips would be covered by the electric range and it would only be long work trips, road trips, off road trips, and modest range towing / hauling where you would need the gas generator. Personally I would estimate that around 75% or more of my miles would be in pure EV mod. I do make ~350 mile trips for work at least once a month and typically do a few road trips a year so it would get used. I would certainly want my Scout to be able to do all those things I want to do with it without having to worry about charging, so I would have zero interest in pure EV version.

Both the pure electric and harvester EREV versions of the Scout support 800-volt architecture designed for up to 350 kW DC fast charging, so for road trips you could even fast charge it as well as using gas engine generator (this is an awesome feature).

 

[cptcolo]

I've also wondered this about the EREV...

In my 4XE, the electric-only would be disabled due to it going into Fuel/Oil Refresh mode.
I know the Scout won't be able to completely disable running on the battery but will it go into a mode that requires the generator to run if it hasn't in a while?

If the battery lasts 150 miles on a charge and you only drive short distances per day, theoretically that generator wouldn't be needed but now months later you have a longer road trip...
If that engine hasn't kicked on in months and now it's needed, you're running old gas and oil that has been stagnant. I'm assuming that the software will require these generators to crank up whether they are needed due to battery charge status or not.

I assume you would be able to manually turn on the engine with the flick of a switch or push of button to put it into hybrid mode. Most PHEVs have such an option. My PHEV ('23 BMW X5 45e) you just flick the shifter to the left and gas engine with power on. You can also put it in sport mode and it stays on all the time.

 

[SkipW]

Same here. I switched my reservation to the erev about a month ago, and now I'm going to switch it back as I've thought about it. A big component of the joy of an electric is just the the near absolute lack of maintenance required. And in my case, even though 90% of my miles would be inside the battery capacity of the erev, now I have to worry about gasoline sitting in the tank for 2 or 3 months and getting stale.

The 500 Mile range won't be as much of a factor as 10 minute charging.

I have a friend that has a 3 year old EV that now requires charging every 90 miles. She seems too always need more capacity. I don’t think we realize how many miles we can put on during average daily travels around town. I love the ideal of a generator but isn’t the point of an EV to have battery power driving. I’m all in for the BEV

 

[joewilk45]

Trying to apply real world logic to EREV's at current time where the scout is rated at 350 EV range and option two EREV version which is rated at 150 EV range and 500 total range with gas engine providing 350 miles of range via kicking on I'm sure at a st battery level or strain. This is what everyone else is under the assumption as well ?? But to me if Scout delays the full EV version which I think the order numbers will change once everyone understands the Erev to EV comparisons. Then how do they handle your ordering status what happens to you spot if you switch from Erev to EV. But the real question is if scout EV is delayed and at time of production has battery technology able to achieve 500 miles of range the Erev market becomes desirable to a much smaller market. Both have to be plugged in why do I want a gas engine if I don't tow or have commercial vehicles. So to me EREV's will become flip phones of auto industry in 3 yrs

 

[joewilk45]

We understand the working of the EREV it's a Gas engine that will be running 70% of time on long runs. Don't a lot of us have that now. To me you either are in on EV's or out the in between makes no sense. Who on here doesn't think battery tech will be advanced in 2 to 3 yrs right when your trying to trade your Scout EREV in on and extended range EV model and they tell you 25 k for you'd trade that was state of the art 3 yrs ago. Towing and commercial applications not sensible for homeowners or families. Both have to be plugged in for full efficiency I think I'll wait for the EV model personally.

 

[Roger 123]

This whole thing is like a dog chasing his tail. First it was EV's, when they didn't sell (more accurately anyone that wanted one bought one and sales dried up), manufacturers pivoted to EREV. Now from what I'm hearing people may not want EREVs even though 85% have reserved them. By the time Ford gets their EREV out they will have to pivot back to EV. By the time Scout gets into full EREV production they will also have to pivot back to EV. By that time a new admin may be in and the whole process will start over.

After the dust settles I agree that EREV will be relegated to the history books, and I also believe that most people, not EV enthusiasts, will drive them like regular cars and just put gas in them. Then the repair bills will start coming in and when they go to trade they will be worth pennies on the dollar and people will just revert back to gas or maybe if they weren't injured too bad by the EREV experience they will give an EV a try..

I may be wrong and EVs may be the future but that future I think is 15 years away before they are fully mainstream.

Tell me again how all of this is saving the planet? RAM is going with a 3.6L gasser AND a battery and basically a 3/4 ton running gear on a 1/2 ton truck as it weighs so much. Pat me on the back for driving a 7,000 pound EV while looking down my nose at those foolish people driving ICE cars and ruining the environment.

 

[colinnwn]

We understand the working of the EREV it's a Gas engine that will be running 70% of time on long runs. Don't a lot of us have that now. To me you either are in on EV's or out the in between makes no sense. Who on here doesn't think battery tech will be advanced in 2 to 3 yrs right when your trying to trade your Scout EREV in on and extended range EV model and they tell you 25 k for you'd trade that was state of the art 3 yrs ago. Towing and commercial applications not sensible for homeowners or families. Both have to be plugged in for full efficiency I think I'll wait for the EV model personally.

Most of us will be getting our Scouts in 2 years hopefully. No, in 4 years I don't think battery capacity, nor charging infrastructure will be appreciably better in production vehicles that I would want to switch. In the over 7 years since the model 3 was released the long range version has added only 50 miles. Very lackluster despite the impressive lab announcements of new battery technology.

My ICE engine doesn't run 70% of the time. It runs 100% of the time. And on a long trip that I don't recharge on flat land not towing, I would expect the EREV Scout to run closer to 50% of the time, or less if charging is so convenient I choose to do it rather than just continuing on gas.

Unless I have trouble with the Scout i wouldn't care if it depreciated 75% in the first year. I buy my vehicles to drive for 20+ years until they are destined for the junk yard. Even if electricity infrastructure rapidly advances I'm sure gas stations will be relatively convenient for at least the next 20 years even if the market collapsed by 50%, so ill be happy driving my EREV Scout.

I don't expect any large repair bills related to the EREV as ive driven multiple ICE vehicles over 250k miles with almost no engine work. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some significant EV modules even in the EREV that need replaced hopefully during warranty. Even Tesla has had some significant EV modules issues.

Towing is something that plenty of families do for various reasons including camping and boating or for people who have self owned small businesses of all types. It is a market to be ignored to a company's peril for now.

Scout is well positioned to drop the EREV and go all BEV with minimal investment or disruption if the market changes fast. If they can hit their price and delivery targets, and is overall reliable, I think they are in about the best position for the SUV and pickup future regardless of which way the market goes.

 

[bpdougd]

A recurring theme on this forum is “better batteries and longer range are coming soon, probably before the first Scout ships”. And, there is a lot of R&D going on to create those better batteries. But, I am not as optimistic as some here that we will see those better batteries and longer range (and I mean significantly longer) anytime soon for a few reasons.

The rosy predictions of at least some the organizations developing the new battery technologies are performative, aimed at potential funders/investors. When evaluating their claims I double the “available at scale” time frame.

Politics. The domestic “big three” auto manufacturers have all taken big write downs recently due in large part to the expiration of federal incentives and a shrinking of consumer interest. These are self-reported by the companies. I make no claims as to their accuracy but the rebalancing of of the manufacturing “mix” of vehicle types is real and ongoing.

More politics. The retrenchment by the EPA has vehicle manufacturers worldwide rethinking their product lines. If the federal dictates on fuel economy are rolled back and since the boards of directors have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders to maximize shareholder return on equity, the business plans of those corporations WILL shift toward ICE power.

I am still interested in what Scout actually ships. I won’t be an early adopter. Never have been.

Just as an aside, I think Toyota may come out looking like the most far-sighted auto maker. They have stuck with hybrids (mostly). Most of their product line is either hybrid only (ie, the Camry) or has a hybrid option. And it looks like that may be the plan for our domestic makers as well.

And for the record, I hope I am wrong about progress on new battery technologies.