Harvester Gas Tank location moved to under rear seats & batteries moved to front (tow rating benefit) ⛽️

[Macallan 18]

Nice update from Jamie at Scout Motors -

A very early cutaway/rendered image we showed had the gas tank up front. We have since moved it under the rear seat area (like typical vehicles) and that allows us to move the batteries to the front for better weight distribution as they are heavier than even the full tank of fuel and engine/generator. ​

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While weight distribution is always something we look at, cooling and load under heat and stress is what ultimately affect the tow ratings. The Davis Dam test is a grueling, high-grade, extreme-heat test, and one of the biggest reasons big front grills and giant radiators have become so prevalent on modern pickup trucks.​

Nice to see better fuel tank location in the Harvester setup compared to initial location up front.

 

[totesmagoat]

AHHHH!! IT'S HAPPENING Tow rating is back on the table!!

 

[CornBinder]

IMHO they need to get the tow rating up on the Harvester model to at least 7,000lbs. Right now Jeep Grand Cherokee (V6 ICE) has a 6,200lb. rating and somewhat stands alone in the non V8 ICE SUV market that is full of 5,000lb. tow rating limited vehicles. That one factor puts the JGC on my personal list of possible vehicles to meet my new towing needs of over 5,000lbs. (my current vehicle is only rated at 3,500lbs.).

If Scout can hit 7,000+lbs. as there lowest tow rating on all their EREV's, that will set them apart from others and keep me on the reservation list.

 

[totesmagoat]

I swear i saw something today where they mentioned 8k+? I cant speak to the SUV, but 8k would be an absolute minimum. My v6 canyon tows 7k and most full size trucks are at least 9k. After the 1500 ramcharger, or whatever theyre calling it these days, came out with 14k towing, its hard to take such a big step back. About 9k is my hope, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[TexasBob]

Tow rating in the harvester is going to be engine limited, no?

• The VW EA211 1.6L MPI engine produces 81 kw peak and 60 kw operating in generator mode (~75%).
• At that speed, you are re-charging at 1 kwh / minute (no losses).
• If you drop below that for any extended time, you are going into turtle mode.

Bottom line: when towing, 1 kwh / minute is ~1.0-1.1 miles per kwh at 70 mph. If you are towing something that pulls your average efficiency below that, the engine won't keep up.

Meanwhile, checking estimated efficiency using the standard EPA testing at stated

• 350 miles÷15 gallons= ~23 MPG on gasoline mode
• An EPA of ~2.1 mi / kwh means a battery with a usable ~72 kWh
• The LFP is going to struggle to deliver high surge power if pulling a 7,000 lb up a steep grade (not its forte, hence lower 0-60)

It all looks to me like the towing range on this is limited by powertrain design to something below 7k in any case. It is going to have a range comparable to the Ineos Grenadier (i.e. 300 miles highway, 350 combined EPA, 150 towing).

 

[TwoJacks]

My current mild hybrid 6 Defender can tow 8,000 lbs. and can easily get 200 miles range doing so. My old Touareg diesel Touareg could also tow 8,000 lbs and got 20 mpg while doing so.

 

[chopsui]

Tow rating in the harvester is going to be engine limited, no?

• The VW EA211 1.6L MPI engine produces 81 kw peak and 60 kw operating in generator mode (~75%).
• At that speed, you are re-charging at 1 kwh / minute (no losses).
• If you drop below that for any extended time, you are going into turtle mode.

Bottom line: when towing, 1 kwh / minute is ~1.0-1.1 miles per kwh at 70 mph. If you are towing something that pulls your average efficiency below that, the engine won't keep up.

Meanwhile, checking estimated efficiency using the standard EPA testing at stated

• 350 miles÷15 gallons= ~23 MPG on gasoline mode
• An EPA of ~2.1 mi / kwh means a battery with a usable ~72 kWh
• The LFP is going to struggle to deliver high surge power if pulling a 7,000 lb up a steep grade (not its forte, hence lower 0-60)

It all looks to me like the towing range on this is limited by powertrain design to something below 7k in any case. It is going to have a range comparable to the Ineos Grenadier (i.e. 300 miles highway, 350 combined EPA, 150 towing).

I've been out of the loop. Do we know for a fact that's the engine they're going with?

 

[TexasBob]

I've been out of the loop. Do we know for a fact that's the engine they're going with?

It is the only one that fits the description. Naturally aspirated 4c built in Mexico. The de-turbo’d 2.0 EA888 is possible but would be lower power.

 

[brp]

With Davis Dam testing for towing, the weight matters obviously.

But in typical use cases, the aerodynamics are much more important than the weight.

I have no worries about the motor being able to keep up. For long towing, I’ll leave with a battery in a high state of charge, which gives about an hour of buffer. The battery will also be charged during liquid fueling stops, bathroom , and more.

The situation where I see the drivetrain theoretically not keeping up is while towing is a long day of driving into the wind, rather than climbs.

Still, it doesn’t concern me.

In that rare/never circumstance, I’ll draft a semi, slow down, etc.

 

[WXman]

Interesting!

 

[colinnwn]

I thought I had

With Davis Dam testing for towing, the weight matters obviously.

But in typical use cases, the aerodynamics are much more important than the weight.

I have no worries about the motor being able to keep up. For long towing, I’ll leave with a battery in a high state of charge, which gives about an hour of buffer. The battery will also be charged during liquid fueling stops, bathroom , and more.

The situation where I see the drivetrain theoretically not keeping up is while towing is a long day of driving into the wind, rather than climbs.

Still, it doesn’t concern me.

In that rare/never circumstance, I’ll draft a semi, slow down, etc.

I'd agree with that. Keeping up at 80 mph into the wind on trips out to West Texas is what has me slightly concerned.

I think Jaime said that heat on the Davis Dam run has been a concern. Personally my slight concern would be ending up heading into a mountain pass after a long run you just refueled gas and have a depleted battery and not really wanting to wait for it to recharge.

Though I think this would be rare enough that it's just one of those things to do a little better advanced planning. Also I hope if you route your trip the software will take into account elevation changes, trip energy draw to detect the towing demand, and strategically manage the battery and generator for you to be ready.

 

[TexasBob]

I have no worries about the motor being able to keep up. For long towing, I’ll leave with a battery in a high state of charge, which gives about an hour of buffer. The battery will also be charged during liquid fueling stops, bathroom , and more.

The situation where I see the drivetrain theoretically not keeping up is while towing is a long day of driving into the wind, rather than climbs.

The engine can deliver 60 kwh per hour. If you got the same efficiency as in the video you posted, 0.72 miles per kwh, the engine cannot keep up. Put a different way, a 60 kw engine can handle a towing load that drops the average efficiency down to 1 mile per kwh and not lower. The tow rating will be designed to reflect this constraint.

Put yet a different way, if you tried to tow something that got you 0.72 miles per kwh, you would chew through a 100% charge in your battery and go into turtle mode after around 100 - 125 miles depending on final AER/battery size. If Scout puts a bigger engine in, it will do more, but based on current released specs, this truck is not designed for that type of load. It is designed around a ~ 1 mile/kwh or better while towing type of load.

 

[Goose]

I'm still going BEV, and I tow a boat.

 

[ScoutRik]

Does anybody happen to have even a rough measurement of the dimensions from the cargo floor to the ceiling for the Terra? Additionally, the measurement from the folded down second row seat to the ceiling? I have a rather large dog and I need a minimum height in order for me to even consider a Scout. I know that moving the gas tank as well as that four-cylinder engine is going to determine at least some of that equation. What is ironic is that the current Honda Fit (aptly named) that I have right now has 39 inches of height (even though it is a very small car) with the rear seat seats folded completely flat. To make that happen in my Jeep JL, I had to not only remove the rear seat (which took about two minutes) but also build a platform that created a level surface from the cargo area to the rear of the front seats. To make it happen in the sixth generation Bronco, it was a much more involved process in which I had to remove the rear seat, upper and lower sections, as well as retain the wiring in order to keep a warning message from the rear seat seatbelt appearing...and then build a platform that leveled the space all the way to the rear of the front seats. I was considering a Grenadier, but that vehicle also has to have a rear seat removal and then some kind of platform built to get an entirely flat area. It is similar to the Rivian because it is relatively short from the cargo area to the ceiling, even though it is on the larger side overall. I can't figure out why auto manufacturers can't figure out something so simple as a completely flat cargo area...thus far, other than my Fit, the only vehicles I've ever found that are tall enough inside, and that have a completely flat rear area are the Volkswagen Atlas and the older Land Rover LR 3s and LR 4s. I'm hoping that Scout will take a cue from the Volkswagen Atlas and make a rear seat that does in fact fold completely flat and that has the same level as the cargo area.... but with the Scout batteries, and the gas tank, and the generator, I'm wondering if already it might be too short.

 

[KenjiB]

This probably means the gas fill port gets moved back behind the rear passenger door. I liked the Harvester tag where/how it is currently. I wonder how it would look moved back or if they would leave the tag where it is and add another port for the fueling.