Time to give up the frunk (if you want the Harvester engine)...

[Latrant]

So you could give a frunk !! I just can't wait to see an actual order sheets then that's when the real customers come to the plate and we know what scout is actually selling and at what price point and drive train offerings being a reality

no frunk and I won’t buy it. Simple as that. There are other deal breakers that Chevy and Ford and other EV makers have de-contented that will prevent my purchase.

 

[bpdougd]

It still does plenty of truck things even if it may not meet your standards for towing. I mean it still is able to tow ? Even a Suzuki Samurai can tow. But seriously if you’re looking for a truck that can get to remote areas AND tow 10,000 lb, I just don’t see this EV as that truck. Let’s just be real. People want it all and that’s just not what’s reality. I think Scout was trying to accommodate people wanting an EV but address range anxiety for off the beaten path experience. But it may come as a sacrifice and they have to sacrifice one thing over another. I respect that you want towing capacity but you just can’t have it all. I would tell myself the same thing if they gave us towing and took away the frunk, or something else. It’s going to come down to a business decision as to what makes most sense and what sells more trucks.

As others have noted in this thread, it's all about your use case.

My current vehicle is a 2015 Ram with the 3.0L ecodiesel. We travel to our remote cabin (NW Colorado) a dozen times or so from spring to fall (and once or twice during hunting season). It is 310 miles one-way from Colorado Springs. The usual route to the cabin crosses two major mountain passes. It is 45 miles to the nearest town.

Our cabin is off-grid with a solar/battery system utterly inadequate to charge an EV. So, for us, it is not range anxiety; it is a case of too little range for the task at hand. (It is even worse if you factor in lowered range in cold weather At approximately 9000' elevation the temps late November can fall to -10-20° F.) So the Harvester model is the only choice that meets our use case (other than the promised Ram).

 

[joewilk45]

Here's an option
https://signaturesolar.com/chiko-maximo-185-steel-solar-carport-gazebo

 

[Mousehunter]

The Scout is an EV, the Harvester is an onboard generator. Since there will be batteries to handle short term surges - all that is necessary is to cover average load. 50hp should cover that with a little to spare. (Assuming 3 miles per kw, you would need about a 20kw generator - google says 40hp for a 20kw generator). Everything is a trade off - sure bigger would allow you to cruise and charge at the same time, but that is more space, more weight, more cost - and ultimately worse overall mileage (worse range for a given size tank of gas).

The real issue is towing. Towing will require more kw's. Scout will ultimately need to decide if the compromise to help towing is worth it for the other 95% of the customers. Ram is all in for towing - but at what other costs.

 

[joewilk45]

The real issue is battery advancement and timeframe it happens. Scout could possibly be the first long range Solid State SUV ???

 

[colinnwn]

The Scout is an EV, the Harvester is an onboard generator. Since there will be batteries to handle short term surges - all that is necessary is to cover average load. 50hp should cover that with a little to spare. (Assuming 3 miles per kw, you would need about a 20kw generator - google says 40hp for a 20kw generator). Everything is a trade off - sure bigger would allow you to cruise and charge at the same time, but that is more space, more weight, more cost - and ultimately worse overall mileage (worse range for a given size tank of gas).

The real issue is towing. Towing will require more kw's. Scout will ultimately need to decide if the compromise to help towing is worth it for the other 95% of the customers. Ram is all in for towing - but at what other costs.

Scout has said they are going for a gas and go 'no compromise' experience with the Harvester. To do that you'll need a good bit more hp for altitude and mountain driving at highway speeds.

They are also targeting a Harvester towing rating between 5,000-7,000 lbs based on some conflicting comments and to advertise that they will have to meet the SAE J2807 standard.

They've selected a 2.0 non turbo engine. So if they stay with the Otto cycle it will likely make about 150 hp. If they pick Miller or another cycle it may be closer to 120.

 

[Mousehunter]

HP is a little tricky thing to measure with a generator. Generators generally want to run at a constant RPM for efficiency. RPM is essentially torque x RPM. For longer life, you generally don't want high RPM with a generator - more noise, shorter life. So it could be conceivable that an engine might be theoretically rated at a MUCH higher horsepower if it was run at high RPM, while the published HP at it operating RPM as a generator would be significantly lower. Likewise, they could publish a higher HP number if they used a boost mode - even if that boost mode is rarely used when operating the generator.

Just a quick google - while Ingersol Rand puts different engines in their generators, one I found for a 40kw generator was a 2.5 liter (non-turbo diesel) engine. Unlike my portable generators - that one is designed for many years of service.
---
My main point is that as long as you have sufficient battery power for boosting performance on grades and accelerating - there is not much need to have the engine working harder. A boost mode might be useful in a pinch IF your battery is running low, or when towing - but it is not really a substitute for a correctly sized towing engine if you plan on towing long distances a lot.

Sure it would be great if I could tow my boat 400 miles with my Scout - but not if the Harvester has to be screaming like a banshee the whole time. Been there, done that towing an RV with a gas 1/2 ton pickup. Towing is worlds less stressful with a 3/4 ton diesel - plus I don't feel like I am tearing my truck apart when I do it. I can almost forget the RV is behind me.

 

[colinnwn]

I think you are saying horsepower is (torque x RPM)/5250

And yes I agree with you main points. I've said in many threads that I think the Harvester will have two speeds, operating close to max torque (which is frequently close to max efficiency) which can be significantly lower RPM but 80% or so of max horsepower, and then a boost mode that would have more NVH for high demand low battery times. They also may do like some manufacturers have and artificially vary the RPMs to reduce drone and to meet human perception expectations. Operating on a different cycle than Otto can also reduce max possible power and increase efficiency more.

I've rented one of those towable diesel either 20 or 40 kw generators. I think it was touching 3,000 lb total and designed to run for decades loafing along rather than residential cheaply made units.

It's true there is much lower average power demand than most people think. But based on what Scott said they are going to avoid as much of the compromises that can come with that as they can based on the room they have and the cost.

I have a small RV that I do like to take into remote and mountain areas that is well within the rating of my truck. Sure I would like to have a 3/4 ton but I'm not wealthy enough to justify a 3rd vehicle in the family garage to use 4x a year. I'm OK if I can tell I'm towing with the v engine being pushed. For many people it may be better. If you can't tell you are towing it can lull less experienced towers into a false sense of security that the handling is no different than an unladen car and they drive too aggressively like they are doing their normal work commute in heavy traffic.

 

[JuniperScout]

I'm sure people have seen it but it's nice confirmation that the frunk will remain in place with the Harvester option... about 4:20 in the video